Live!!

[windsofwar]

Who: resident dragon man and you
Where: Lobby
When: 184 morning

Good morning, everyone! I've decided now is the best time for us all to have another debate, now that our guests have been excused.

As many of you know, most of those guests were like me. Damned from other shows, instructed to take part in the show to make it more entertaining. During the week, we all saw and did many things, and hopefully, no one is holding much of a grudge.

Especially toward Future is Now, because I offered to murder, but they refused, and tried to protect as many people as possible, and we still were victorious, some how. So they should be applauded!

That aside, there was also that. . .live. As someone who has also stabbed a child, it made me think. How exactly do I want to reach my goals, and what should I sacrifice to get there? Personally, I don't think my stance has changed much, but we definitely shouldn't stab children. Only deimos! So I apologize for my brash actions from before.

So my question for the rest of you, even though violence can't be completely avoided here, when is it an appropriate first choice of action? I imagine many of you may have had to make extremely hard calls this week, so I have to wonder. Please discuss.

Comments

[rollplayinghouse]

You're really that self-righteous, huh?

[worthathousand]

Is that what it is to you? [ neither particularly surprised or particularly irritated ]
Taking death seriously is self-righteousness?

[rollplayinghouse]

You can take it seriously without wanting to inflict a punishment worse than the crime.

[worthathousand]

...You mean what I asked Requiem to discuss with all of you.
There's no sense pretending that isn't part of this.

I am willing to explain my perspective, though perhaps in the middle of the lobby isn't the best place for it.

[rollplayinghouse]

I don't know what you could possibly explain that could justify it.

[worthathousand]

[ silent a moment, considering her ]

You are an assassin. When you kill someone, do you mean it?

[rollplayinghouse]

Mean what?

[worthathousand]

When you kill someone, is it your intention that they die? That they go on to the next life, never to take any action in this one again.

[rollplayinghouse]

Of course. That's the point.

But I don't do it because they deserve it. I'm an assassin. Killing people is my job.

[worthathousand]

You still chose to do the work, just as I chose to go to war. The point is that it is a serious act—probably none more so.

I don't like killing in games if there is any possible alternative. We are all victims there, and, were things just, no one would die.

If I have chosen to kill someone, it is not for the sake of hurting them, or teaching them a lesson, or any of that kind of satisfaction. It is because they are too dangerous to be allowed to live.

[rollplayinghouse]

That's exactly what I mean about you being self-righteous! You won't even admit you're just doing what you want! You have to believe you're doing the "right thing"! But who are you to decide who's allowed to live?!

[worthathousand]

I'm not unleashing some kind of universal judgment, Maki.

That would be a much more cutting accusation if we weren't speaking of people who planned and executed the murder of a child—one of whom made it very clear that she had every intention of doing so again.

[rollplayinghouse]

Yes, and? As you said, a lot of bad things happen here. Why is she the one who crosses the line to needing to be eliminated, except for the fact that you want to feel like you can mete out some kind of justice?

Have you tried anything else to prevent it? Have you even talked to her, or us, her unit, about what we could do to stop her?

What you suggested immediately is something that even the asshole demons who are behind every bit of torture we've been through here are trying to save people from.

[worthathousand]

I wouldn't give them anywhere near that much credit; this production is no gift.

But that's not the point.
The point is—
[ a deep breath, collecting herself ] There are a lot of different parts of that to respond to.

I don't know exactly what system of justice we could ever hope to have in this place, if we decided we wanted that. But I am comfortable saying that what that godling did crosses any line we could possibly draw.

Ultimately, it is ZRAEL's decision; there is no question of that. All I ever intended was... I guess I'd call it giving a recommendation. Because, in the end, the grey sickness is the only death there is here. If all of you can truly keep her and—Amy, I think Requiem said that was his name—from committing such atrocity again, then yes, the grey sickness is excessive. I don't truly believe they can be controlled, but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

I'm just not going to stand here and say that there are so many terrible things happening that I might as well do nothing. I can hardly think that's something you would agree with either.

[rollplayinghouse]

Someone took advantage of this last game to mindfuck and decapitate a "child" two days after God and Amy's live. Don't act like what they did was any more egregious than things that happen here every week just because most people have a bit more subtlety than throwing a live about it, and more of an excuse than just doing it for fun. The only thing that's different is that you have the ability to do something about it.

Obviously I'm not saying anyone should sit back and do nothing, but there's a fucking long way from "nothing" to "force them to slowly lose their emotions and memories until they vanish from existence entirely." You're acting like that's the best option when really you're just desperate to find some way to actually make an impact. That's understandable. We all feel that way. But your desperation isn't justice.

[worthathousand]

[ mouth already opening in shock/horror after that first sentence— ]

Excuse me, someone did what?
No, what God and Amy did is still far worse than what we normally accept, and so was that.

Call it desperation if you want— I won't pretend there's no desperation at all in me, after everything. But I would still rather take what agency we have than give monsters free reign. What we call "killing" isn't even death; it's just a delaying tactic.

...Has no one done anything about that other murder?

[rollplayinghouse]

...It was in a game, and the perpetrator was on one of the temporary units. There's only so much anyone can do.

Like I said, I understand feeing helpless. But have you ever started to gradually lose both your color and everything else about yourself that you've gathered, helpless to stop it as you slowly fade away? Not that going to visit Lilith is exactly a vacation, either.

You're not talking about just killing. You're talking about inflicting torture way worse than what they did. Physical pain is temporary, and as you say, even death doesn't last.

And even in the real world where death is permanent, we didn't know that there wasn't somewhere else that their souls went. Here we know, for certain, we'd be destroying them. Don't tell me that's justified. And don't act like it's a choice between that and giving free reign to do whatever.

[worthathousand]

[ a sharp, frustrated exhale at that news of the game, and she drags a hand through her hair ]

Is that really what you think is happening? [ from her tone, it's not a rhetorical question ]
In my own world, we do know what happens to the souls of the dead: When they are ready, they drink from the river of forgetting, and pass on to the next life. Losing their memories and identity is part of that. So I am being very honest when I say that I saw the greying like that, even if it is horrible to inflict on a living person.

As far as I've been concerned, the grey death really has seemed like the only real death there is, here, and in more ways than one.

[rollplayinghouse]

"When they're ready" is already a big distinction.

And yes, that's what I think is happening. You want to inflict something so horrible that no one has actually done it, here, and you won't even admit it's because you feel angry and impotent. You think it's the natural response, that it's justified, that everyone should be able to see that. To me, that's way more dangerous than anything God and Amy could do.

[worthathousand]

I already told you that what you think I wanted is very different from what I have believed of the grey plague. I will keep your world's version of the afterlife in mind, but don't accuse me of desiring something I never conceived of.

As for what I think:
Do you need to hear me say that I am angry, and that it makes me even more angry that we have so few solutions available to us?
What I think is that everyone should be able to see that some things are wrong, and that to do nothing about them makes us likewise accountable. If you can come up with a better way to to prevent those wrongs, then I am being honest when I say that I would like to hear of it.

[rollplayinghouse]

I'm not talking about "my world's version of the afterlife." As far as I was concerned, there was no afterlife. When I killed people the best I could offer was a quick death and nothing after that. That's still better than the gray disease.

And I plan to start by talking to them, after they get back from Lilith. A step you skipped right over.

[worthathousand]

Should I have politely asked them to not kill children while Amy took the saw to Eclipse's neck?

Requiem and I may have disagreed on many things, but she wasn't trying to lie to herself that they're the kind to be won over with words alone.

I genuinely hope that your efforts make a difference. But it took more than pleasant conversation to convince Kharg, and he seemingly has a selfless heart.

[rollplayinghouse]

What exactly are you imagining? Obviously I'm not just going to ask them politely to be nicer. I doubt the conversation is going to be pleasant.

But I've stopped God from doing things before. Her motivations are shallow, so she's pretty easily swayed, actually. You don't have to magically make them into good, selfless people to prevent them from murdering people.

[worthathousand]

[ a heavy sigh, and she finally breaks eye contact to drag a hand through her hair again ]

I was just... irritated—that you seemed to be suggesting I should have tried negotiation before joining Heart Soldier in dealing with them both directly.

In the end, these are people who I would have supported being put to death, were we in my home. For that reason and no other did I come to Requiem with what I knew was an extreme suggestion.
But... as I've said, I still want what you are planning to work. Just because I believe that units are responsible for the actions of our own doesn't mean I relish the prospect of cruelty, much less think it should be the only option.

[rollplayinghouse]

I didn't say that. I don't have any issues with what Heart Soldier did. It was an urgent situation, and they took equivalent revenge for what they did. That's different. Now the basic things are settled, and we can figure out what to do, and you jumped right to a punishment way worse than the crime.

And that's exactly it. It was just your opinion, which no one asked you for. But you're so convinced your opinion is important and correct that you pushed for it, despite it being extreme. Isn't that basically the definition of being self-righteous?